13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Post by Gaybutton »

The problem now is how to get them out and how long it will take.
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Thai cave search: Rescuers unsure how to free trapped boys

By Steve George, CNN

July 3, 2018

(CNN) - The initial relief that greeted the dramatic discovery of the trapped Thai soccer team has given way to concern, as rescuers begin the difficult task of attempting to free the 12 boys and their coach from deep inside the flooded cave network.

Video shared by the Thai Navy SEALs shows the boys, who were found alive by British divers in the early hours of Monday evening, huddled together on a small patch of dry ground, surrounded by water in a cramped, pitch-black chamber.

"It is estimated that the boys are around two kilometers (1.2 miles) into the cave and somewhere between 800 meters to one kilometer (0.6 miles) below the surface," said Bill Whitehouse, vice chairman, British Cave Rescue Council, whose organization has helped spearhead the search of the Tham Luang Nang Non cave system in northern Thailand.

But as the rescue operation enters into the next phase, options for rescuers appear limited. The area in which the group remains stranded is only accessible via a narrow flooded channel and attempts to pump water from the cave, or find a natural opening in the roof of the chamber, have so far proved unsuccessful.

Not out yet

Capt. Akanand Surawan, a commander with the Royal Thai Navy, said authorities would now supply the group with four months' worth of food and begin teaching the boys how to scuba dive.

But with rain continuing to fall, rising water levels could force rescuers to act sooner rather than later.

"We believe that there is only a short break in the monsoon and all feasible options for the rescue of the boys are being considered," Whitehouse said in a statement.

"Although water levels have dropped, the diving conditions remain difficult and any attempt to dive the boys and their coach out will not be taken lightly because there are significant technical challenges and risks to consider," said Whitehouse.

Diving is considered among the least preferable escape methods, with experts cautioning that any attempt to traverse the narrow passageways will be fraught with difficulties and potential complications, especially if the children can't swim.

"Worst case scenario is they have to dive them out," said Pat Moret, a rescue consultant told CNN on Monday.

"It won't be anything like diving that most people recognize. It will be diving in what is effectively muddy water, possibly fast flowing, with no sense of direction," Moret said. "You can't tell what's up, down, sideways."

The emotional toil of any rescue attempt would also need to be considered said Paul Auerbach, Professor of Emergency Medicine at Stanford University.

"This is going to be a complicated rescue. It's manageable, but they have to be sure that these kids are physically capable of it and emotionally capable of it as well," said Auerbach.

"They'll be assessed for hydration status, adequate fuel supply, adequate food so that their glucose level is adequate, and then no doubt they'll do practice dives," he added.

Battling the rains

The boys, who are between ages 11 and 16 and are members of the Wild Boars soccer team, had been exploring the cave network with their soccer coach on June 23, when heavy seasonal rains flooded the cave's entrance, forcing the group further and further into the labyrinth of tunnels in search of high ground.

Their sudden disappearance sparked a desperate nine-day race against time as hundreds of volunteers and specialist international search teams battled against the heavy rains to locate the missing group.

On Monday, Narongsak Osottanakorn, governor of the local region Chiang Rai, told reporters that the mission is "not done yet" and medical experts need to enter the cave to assess the boys before any further action is taken.

"We will drain all water out from the cave then we will take all 13 people out of the cave. We are now planning how to send (a) nurse and doctor inside the cave to check their health and movement. We will work all night," he said.

Surawan, a commander with the Royal Thai Navy, said additional divers will accompany the doctor and nurse. Rescuers will also pump air into the cave to improve conditions.

Rescue teams have been trying to drain the cave for several days, and at one point were pumping 1.6 million liters of water an hour out of it. However, continuous rains have frustrated attempts to clear the passageways, with the water remaining at a steady level.

A final rescue option could see the boys lifted through the roof of the cave to safety, either through a natural opening or a drilled entry point.

During an attempted rescue mission last week, trekkers found a hidden opening deep in the jungle, giving them another way to enter the cave system. The natural chimney was least 1.5 meters in diameter and at least 22 meters (72 feet) deep, north of the cave opening.

Though the opening did not connect to area where the boys were discovered, now that the boys' location is known, rescue efforts can focus on finding other, potentially hidden openings.

"They are also located in a relatively small space and this would make any potential drilling attempt as a means of rescue very difficult," said Whitehouse.

"Back here in the UK, there is an assessment of electronic equipment that may be suitable to pin-point the underground location of the boys and coach with a greater degree of accuracy than the published surveys," added Whitehouse.

"The necessary equipment will be sent to Thailand if electronic experts agree on the feasibility that it will operate over such depths."

Story, photos, graphics, videos: https://us.cnn.com/2018/07/03/asia/thai ... index.html
fountainhall

Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Post by fountainhall »

I am sure someone must have thought about this, but I’m wondering if, given the key problem will be the amount of rainwater filling the cave over the next few days, there is not some way of erecting even the simplest of dams around the main water entrances and so divert at least some of it away. I expect there are too many openings, but even if the major ones were dammed, would that not reduce the amount of water getting in?
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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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fountainhall wrote: some way of erecting even the simplest of dams around the main water entrances and so divert at least some of it away.
Perhaps, but I doubt any of us are going to think of something they haven't already thought of and are either going to try or for whatever reasons will rule out. In large caves water has plenty of ways to get in other than main entrances. Maybe they thought of the idea of trying to dam the water, but ruled it out because they think it would not be effective enough to make a difference and/or could hamper the rescue efforts.
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Why the Thailand cave rescue is no simple task

July 3, 2018

BANGKOK -- Now that the missing Thai soccer team has been found, the next step is determining how to get the boys and coach safely out of the partly flooded cave in northern Thailand.

Thai Navy SEALs posted video on Facebook Monday showing the moment the British rescue divers first found the team. In the five-minute video, the boys are quiet as they sit on their haunches, legs bent in front of them, clad in the uniforms they were wearing on the morning they disappeared into the cave.

Here's a look at the options and why extracting the 12 boys and their coach could take some time:

The cave is huge

Tham Luang Nang Non cave in Chiang Rai province stretches under a mountainside for up to 6 miles, much of it a string of narrow passageways that lead to wide chambers and then back to narrow passageways. The rocky and muddy ground makes several changes in elevation along the way.

The British Cave Rescue Council, which has members taking part in the operation, estimates the boys are around 1.2 miles into the cave and somewhere around half a mile below the surface. Other estimates put the boys as far as 2.5 miles into the cave.

The British divers found the team about 400 yards deeper into the cave complex, on a sandy bank beyond an area known by local divers as "Pattaya Beach."

It's flooded

Finding the boys took more than nine days, partly because of how difficult it is to move around the cave. The cave floods during Thailand's rainy season and even elite Thai navy SEAL divers were finding it difficult to move through the muddy waters, currents and tight passageways.
Safety first

Thai authorities say they are committed to "100 percent safety" when they consider how to extract the boys, who don't appear to be in urgent need of medical evacuation. Chiang Rai provincial Gov. Narongsak Osatanakorn said: "We worked so hard to find them and we will not lose them."

According to Anmar Mirza, national coordinator of the National Cave Rescue Commission in the U.S. and editor of the book Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Technique, the main decision is now whether to try to evacuate the boys or to supply them in place.

Supplying them in place

This is possibly the safest option. It would involve bringing food and other supplies to the boys and waiting for water levels to drop, naturally or by pumping out water, or until rescuers can find or create another exit.

This could take anywhere from days to weeks to even months as the rainy season typically lasts through October. The Thai navy is already doing this short-term, sending teams with high-protein liquid food to feed the boys, keep them company and explore the cave infrastructure where they are to ensure it is safe. The navy said medics will be sent to help improve conditions in the cave.

Danger of staying put

More monsoon rains are on the way. After a break in the weather in recent days, the Thai Meteorological Department forecast for Chiang Rai calls for light rain through Friday followed by heavy rain starting Saturday and continuing through July 10. Such storms could raise water levels in the cave again and complicate the supply missions or any potential extrication, if one was needed.

Creating another entrance

Along with the search efforts inside the cave, rescuers have searched on the mountainside for possible ways into the caverns below. Authorities said those efforts will continue. Backhoes and drilling equipment were sent to the mountain, but creating a shaft large enough to extract the boys would be extremely complicated and could take a long time.

The British Cave Rescue Council said the boys are "located in a relatively small space and this would make any potential drilling attempt as a means of rescue very difficult."

Diving them out

Diving would be the fastest, but arguably most dangerous, extraction method. Mirza said, "trying to take non-divers through caves is one of the most dangerous situations possible, even if the dives are relatively easy."

By all accounts, the dives into the cave have been a challenge. Experts in caving and diving needed days to reach the boys. Getting the boys out could go faster due to the installation of dive lines, extra oxygen tanks left along the way and glow sticks lighting the path.

Still the British Cave Rescue Council said: "Any attempt to dive the boys and their coach out will not be taken lightly because there are significant technical challenges and risks to consider."

But it may still be the best option, as a top Thai official said Tuesday that heavy rains forecast for the coming days could worsen flooding inside the mountain cave, forcing authorities to speed up their extraction plans.

Interior Minister Anupong Paojinda said rescue teams were preparing plans to bring the boys out via the same complicated route rescuers used to find them. While efforts to pump out the floodwater continue, Anupong said it was clear that some areas cannot be drained, and in order to get the boys out they would likely need to use diving gear and guide them out one at a time, with two professional divers helping each.

He conceded that if something went awry, it could be "life-threatening."

Story and videos: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thailand-c ... -nang-non/
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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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The latest is despite the dangers, the plan is to try to bring the boys out via the main cave entrance, which will involve diving. They are saying from among the options, this is the most feasible to attempt.

However, it gets much more complicated. None of the boys know how to swim.

There is no word yet when this will be attempted. They want to pump out as much water as they can first. But they say this rescue attempt must be done before more water rises due to the coming of more heavy rains, and those rains are expected in a week - maybe less.

Food supplies are being sent down to the boys and a system is being set up so the boys can talk to their parents.

For the latest details and how this rescue will be attempted, see: https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... ater-rises
fountainhall

Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Post by fountainhall »

Cover from today's New York Post

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Geezer

Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Post by Geezer »

At Last a subject upon which I am qualified to have an opinion . (Geologist 25 yrs, scuba diver 20 years, have explored hundreds of caves)

Where to start? From reports there are at least two submerged crawlways. Crawlways commonly have diameters of 3 to feet or less, but diameter is the wrong word, as they never have a circular cross-section, perhaps 3 feet on one axis and 2 1/2 on another. They are certainly difficult to traverse with scuba gear with the hose connecting the cylinder and regulator likely to get caught on any protruding rock. Newspapers have reported that most of the trip out can be made with a diver on each side of the student, but this will not be possible in the crawlways. The divers and students will have to be in tandem. It is difficult to understand how the divers could be of much assistance in such a situation.

Terrain of this sort is known as karst . Through millions of years slightly acidic groundwater has enlarged joints and cracks in the limestone, much as (to the delight of your dentest) the slightly acidic environment of your mouth has dissolved the calcium in your teeth. The area in question is riddled with interconnecting joints, cracks, passageways and caverns of various sizes. These voids will be saturated until the water table is below the problematic passageways. Mother Nature will accomplish this in several months. To do it earlier is an engineering problem to challenge Isambard
Kingdom Brunel.
Geezer

Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Post by Geezer »

…and if you have difficulty remembering which is a stalactite and which is a stalagmite:

Stalactite (the c is for ceiling) and the stalac sticks tite to the ceiling.
Stalagmite (the g is for ground) If enough time passes the stalag mite grow up to the ceiling.
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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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Soccer coach could face charges for endangering team. All options being considered for rescue as continued rain is forecast:

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/thai ... aacce7429f
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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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Undaunted wrote:Soccer coach could face charges for endangering team.
So far, the only news I've seen mentioning anything about that is in the article you posted. They're all still stuck in that cave, a very dangerous, risky rescue operation is being planned, and they're worried now about charging the coach?

I did see something in one of the news items that a sign is at the cave entrance saying not to enter the cave during rainy season. If the sign is there and he ignored it I suppose grounds for some sort of charge against him would be justifiable, but that doesn't mean there really is a need to go through with it and charge him. Supposedly the boys and the coach had been in and out of that cave several times before without incident, although I'm wondering why he ever took them into a cave at all, especially that far into the cave.

I could see charging him if he took those boys into the cave without the knowledge and consent of the parents, but other than that, unless there was some sort of malicious intent on his part, I hope they leave him alone.

Not the most brilliant judgment I've ever seen, but I think right now is hardly the time to worry about greeting him at the cave entrance with handcuffs. I can't imagine the coach would ever lead a group of kids into a cave again and I would think seeing him arrested and charged would traumatize the boys even more than they're traumatized already. I haven't seen any news items saying the parents are angry at the coach and blaming him for this. Haven't they all, including the coach, already been through enough?
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Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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I do not believe he should be charged, but his judgement is somewhat questionable. However, if anyone is at fault it is the authorities for not closing off the cave entrance knowing it was unsafe to enter during the rainy season as the posted sign stated.
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