Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Anything and everything about Thailand
User avatar
Trongpai
Posts: 1071
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:21 am
Location: Bangkok, Ram Intra
Liked: 4 times
Been liked: 116 times

#11 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby Trongpai » Fri May 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Condo owners don't get too excited about a local courts ruling in Hua Hin. I would think that a local court would not have national jurisdiction and prevent short term condo rentals. I would guess some local Hua Hin hotels do not like loosing business to these short term rental customers and got a local court to rule in their favor. We all know how that's done. The fine is so low it's even possible AirBnB does not even bother with an appeal. Enforcement seem almost impossible. They can't prevent an owner renting out his property. From the article I can't follow the legal logic of the decision.

Yes, it's not just AirBnB but all of them now do short and long term rentals in residential condos, Agoda, Booking.com, and others. I'm told that there's a Russian tour agency called TAZ that does the majority of VT7 rentals. The Chinese use some company in Korat, probably Chinese owned. The majority of the Russians rent for one month.

Short term residential condo rentals are a big saving over conventional hotels. They don't have to pay for a 24hour desk staff, bell boys, cleaning, etc. They generally have the advantage of a full supplied kitchen and full size refrigerator. In Pattaya I find that renting a condo is a saving of 50%-60% over a comparable hotel rooms. I don't mind cleaning myself but if I want cleaning it's available for 200 or 300B.

In Western countries condos often have rules/by-laws that are signed into contracts preventing sub-leasing. If an owner violates that it's a breach of contract. I've also seen zoning laws used to prevent short time renters.

User avatar
mahjongguy
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:07 pm
Liked: 8 times
Been liked: 44 times

#12 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby mahjongguy » Fri May 18, 2018 2:45 pm

Trongpai wrote:From the article I can't follow the legal logic of the decision.

AirBnb isn't the one breaking the Hotel law. They just facilitate the condo and house owners in breaking the law. It would be great if AirBnb would cooperate with Thai laws but they won't and no one can make them do so.

If Thailand wants that tax revenue then they will have to increase fines and (somehow) manage to tighten the screws on the landlords.

If the government fails at this and other strategies to increase tax revenues then there is only one alternative: raise the VAT to 10%. Tourists won't mind but ex-pats won't like it and Thais will go ballistic.

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#13 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby firecat69 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:18 pm

So much misinformation here!. I have never checked into a View Talay and I have checked into all of them where I did not have to produce my passport. In fact Airbnb you have to have your passport on file along with another current personal photo. And most AIRBNB owners ask for photos of the other guests.

Fact many of the other agencies in Pattaya in the last few years added taxes to the daily rate. Whether they actually pay the rate I have no idea and speaks more to the incompetence of the Thai Government.

Next anyone talking about guests being screened evidently has not spent much time in Hotels in Thailand . Screening is abysmal for the most part except maybe at 2 am ( Like I care). In BKK I stay in upscale Hotels ( aren't points wonderful) and in many stays I have never been stopped when arriving with a boy except once at the Holiday Inn Silom ( first trip) and never returned. And my preferred type are Twinks.

I sympathize with those who suffer noise caused by vacationers but really your complaints should go to the management of the building. I live in a building in Atlanta where no Airbnb rentals are allowed of any length. And if someone is caught and most are the penalties are severe.

So it really is simple if you don't want short time renters in your building then penalize the owners severely .

Of course if the party people both male and female stop coming to Pattaya your property values will really collapse since Pattaya has nothing else to offer except of course polluted beaches and traffic jams.

Up2u
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:06 am
Liked: 220 times
Been liked: 75 times

#14 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby Up2u » Fri May 18, 2018 8:59 pm

firecat69 wrote:So much misinformation here!

Not sure what misinformation you are referencing but no landlord or agency would register a tourist without proper id and passport information. The question is, does the landlord report the tenant to Immigration like all the registered hotels do?... Not hardly. As mentioned, condos are not staffed to be complicit to support illegal rentals. I just went to the airbnb website and reviewed a few vt rentals. None included the VAT or hotel tax which doesn't surprise as they don't want to leave a paper trail if immigration and revenue department compare notes. Airbnb first started in San Francisco but that city has now taken action. I hope Thailand does something similar.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article ... 307-tbla-3

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#15 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby firecat69 » Fri May 18, 2018 9:33 pm

First of all the whole View Talay argument vs. Airbnb is a canard.

There are practically no View Talay apartments for rent on Airbnb. I know of 4 real estate offices on site View Talay 6 and combined they have hundreds of units for rent. The ones I have dealt with have been collecting taxes for years. Those same real estate companies have units at many other View Talay 's.Not my business and I don't care if they pay the government. I also in at least 50 stays all times of year at various VT buildings have never had a noise problem except for the continuous construction that went on for years in Jomtien.

Again if there are so many problems then demands need to be made to management but of course it is Thailand!

User avatar
mahjongguy
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:07 pm
Liked: 8 times
Been liked: 44 times

#16 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby mahjongguy » Fri May 18, 2018 9:58 pm

"The question is, does the landlord report the tenant to Immigration like all the registered hotels do?... Not hardly."

Exactly, and the result? Immigration, under pressure from national programs like X-Ray Outlaw, feels compelled to force foreigners to do their own TM30 filings when they file for 30-day extensions.

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#17 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby firecat69 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:37 pm

Up2u wrote:https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Airbnb-loses-thousands-of-hosts-in-SF-as-12496624.php?t=1be8549d57#item-85307-tbla-3

Interesting article and as I read it the only restriction will be for them to register ( and pay appropriate taxes) . I suppose Thailand could do the same thing but based on knowledge of the speed Thai government moves, I would not hold my breath.

Also won't make a bit of difference to the people who have complained here about short term rentals .

I say again your problems are with incompetent management of your buildings. If a majority of the owners want restrictions put on these kind of rentals, they are the ones who will have to make it happen.

Up2u
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:06 am
Liked: 220 times
Been liked: 75 times

#18 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby Up2u » Sat May 19, 2018 8:48 am

firecat69 wrote:First of all the whole View Talay argument vs. Airbnb is a canard.

There are practically no View Talay apartments for rent on Airbnb."....Not hardly. Go to airbnb website and enter View Talay 5C as an example. The return is 72 rentals all with a daily rate. The issue is not the competence of the condo management but rogue landlords not complying with the law. I obviously live in a View Talay building and the real estate agents in our building only advertise rentals greater than 30 days. A simple programming fix on websites like airbnb would be a start. (Do not permit the user to block out dates less than 30 days.) As a VT condo owner I have every right to lease my unit but the onus is on me (not the condo management) to comply with the law; that the lease is greater than 30 days, that the VAT is collected and paid, that the tenant is reported to immigration, that the tenant complies with condo rules and regulations, etc.

Notice I didn't list the hotel tax and this is at the crux of the argument, if I rent less than 30 days I am essentially operating a hotel and not paying taxes which gives me an advantage over a hotel or guesthouse.

firecat69
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:29 am
Liked: 1 time
Been liked: 40 times

#19 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby firecat69 » Sat May 19, 2018 5:21 pm

I have to admit I never searched that way because for the last few years all my stays have been at VT6 and have never used Airbnb although I have used them all over the world and frankly my travels would have been nowhere near as good if I had been forced to use Hotels.

That said, that particular search does not find only 5C but 5A,5D , 7D etc and a few listings that have nothing to do with View Talay. So not so many apartments when spread over so many buildings and so many apartments.

Up2u
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:06 am
Liked: 220 times
Been liked: 75 times

#20 Re: Thai Court Rules Against Airbnb

Postby Up2u » Sun May 20, 2018 8:43 am

You are right, the View Talay 5D listings are lumped together with 5C, unlike for example View Talay 2A and 2B which has their own specific groupings. There are 11 5D units listed within the 5C grouping of 72. BTW, there's no View Talay 5A, 4 or 7D. Units are still for sale by the developer in all View Talays except 1 and 2. I feel so sorry for the View Talay 2 owners that the situation with holiday tourists during high season makes living there unnecessarily stressful. I do not blame the tourists but the landlords and their agents that do not follow the rules and laws.


Return to “Thailand”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2lz2p, Baidu [Spider], lukylok and 63 guests