Farang insurance dilemmas building up

[thaiworthy]

A US $100,000 travel policy for a man 60-64 years old for his usual three months would have cost him about $750 with zero deductible and 100% coverage for both inpatient and outpatient medical care... From Global Underwriters in the USA. That's with coverage of the insured for motorbike riding. It's $600 if the expat does not ride on a motorbike.

Could we clarify one point in the motorbike issue? Is riding as a passenger (such as a motorbike taxi) different than as a driver on a motorbike? I would think there are many more people riding than driving. As a driver I would suspect the 25% supplement comes in the form of a rider to the policy. Not necessary as a passenger? Such as riding on public transportation?

If you are only in Thailand for 3 months, go back to the US for 3 months, then repeat the cycle, this is a clear advantage to buying a travel policy perhaps only if you are in a reasonably healthy condition. You are only paying for half the year. Otherwise, I might agree with the man in your example. Might. I don't know if a disabled man should be driving a motorbike, but disabled how? To much missing info about him for it to be useful, I think.

I think the term "unexpected recurrence of a preexisting condition" also needs clarification. What does that mean? The condition has to disappear before it can reoccur. 1 year, 5, or more years? My policy considers a pre-existing to be in remission after 5 years. Also, If you are 65 or older, then this particular "benefit" diminishes quite severely, to almost negligible. It would also depend on the "condition" and if not underwritten specifically for the condition, it would concern me. Exclusions are spelled out in an expat policy. A travel policy is much broader in its language and therefore hard to interpret. I've had both kinds of policies. I want a customized policy just for me, with everything spelled out.

The travel policies are a reimbursement plan. You pay the hospital upfront.

I do represent Cigna and I would be pleased to review anyone's particular needs for health insurance.

I am not seeking to write policies.

These quotes appear to conflict each other.

Glad you are still active in the insurance game, especially now that you represent Cigna. I had no way of knowing that. For many years on this board you carried some links to the companies you represent in your signature. This is how I learned about you. Those links are gone now.

[fountainhall]

Those links are gone now.

For a time I was a policyholder with one of those companies. As I have said before on this Board, I cannot stress how much everyone must be exceedingly careful when taking out health insurance. Do due diligence, even if that means second opinions and lengthy background checks. I had no idea this company had a reputation for sucking in older people with lowish premiums, only to jack them up considerably once the premium holder was locked in. This I discovered only after the event when I undertook a great many searches on the internet, searches that also revealed a substantial number of major lawsuits against this insurance company.

Having been a sucker and got sucked in, for the first three years every premium was in line with advance predictions. Then the lightning struck. Within a 5-year band when rates should only go up by medical inflation I was hit with two annual premium increases that totalled just over 100%! I would have gone from paying just over $6,000 in Year 2 of the 5-year band to just over $12,000 in Year 4 - and no clue what rises might come thereafter. Did I get help in finding out why this occurred? Stupid question! No help from anyone involved! Of course I should not complain for it was partly my fault. I had failed to do due diligence.

Do not trust anyone or any company until you have compared plans from a variety of companies - definitely not just one company - and have satisfied yourself as best you can that the plan you are about to sign is the one that best fits your needs and your budget. Be particularly aware of plans which guarantee cover only up to age 75 whereafter it will be up to the insurer to decide whether or not the insurance can be extended. Believe me! There are insurers out there with such clauses tucked into the small print and you can guess what level of premium they will propose if they do agree cover - unaffordable!

If you are only in Thailand for 3 months, go back to the US for 3 months, then repeat the cycle, this is a clear advantage to buying a travel policy perhaps only if you are in a reasonably healthy condition. You are only paying for half the year. Otherwise, I might agree with the man in your example.

If you can time it that you only have 89 days in Thailand each visit, why not take out an annual travel policy? Your return to the US need only be for a few days and then you return on a new 90-day cycle. I accept there will come an age when travel insurance will be extremely difficult to obtain - is that 75? But for those in their early 50s this could be one answer before settling on an annual health policy nearer 60 or so.

[travelerjim]

Tw,
Thank you for your good questions and comments.
I will be brief in reply as I am getting ready to travel today and leaving the house soon.

You asked about the motorbike coverage as a driver or as a rider.
The option is called Hazardous Activity - Low Option...which will cover you anytime you are ON a motorbike.
That means as a driver or rider.

Motorbike accidents are a significant risk especially in Thailand.

Therefore, the policy will cover your medical care IF you have elected that OPTION which is a 25% premium increase over base policy.
That is for policies issued by Global Underwriters in the USA. The sample quotes I made in earlier posts are those from Global Underwriters.

The policies issued by IMG do not exclude nor up charge for this risk when issuing their Patriot Series of travel policies.
I compare quotes from both companies and share them.

I will reply with added info regarding your preexisting condition question.
It depends upon your age...Under 65 or 65+
Also depends on the insurance company issuing the policy.

In recent years IMG has paid for a heart stent needed by an American expat who had had a heart attack 5 years earlier.
He went to see the doctor at BHP and was immediately rushed into ER as he was having a heart attack.

That's why he retired early as his doctor said it was time to retire. He moved to Thailand.
IMG issued a annual Patriot International policy.

At that time I believe his annual premium was less that $1,000 for a $250,000 policy.
The expat was under 65 and IMG paid 100% of the costs above his chosen $1,000 deductible. Bangkok Hospital Pattaya.
IMG paid out approx $17,000 for the heart stent operation and hospital care...plus followup care post surgery.
That's one example of the Sudden and Unexpected recurrence of a preexisting condition.

More later...
chat again soon.

Tj

[fountainhall]

That means as a driver or rider.

Just curious. My travel policy specifies the driver must have a license. Does the policy you quote cover accidents with an unlicensed driver? It's one reason I am reluctant to be a passenger wherever I might be.

[christianpfc]

I hope this does not go through. I am happily living without health insurance. This year I paid about 8000 THB for health issues, much cheaper than any insurance I looked at. (And in previous years similar numbers.)

The problem lies elsewhere. It's any business's onus to make sure their customers can pay. When it comes to doctors, the Hippocratic Oath gets in the way.

Proof of funding (when I apply at Thai embassy in Berlin for a tourist visa, I have to bring a bank statement with 5000 Euro balance, however is this meant to cover my accommodation, food, travel and probably not meant for medical emergencies), or those 800,000 for other visas, should cover un-paid health costs?

As far as I know, Thais applying for a Schengen visa have to have a health insurance for their stay in Europe.

[Gaybutton]

I am happily living without health insurance.

You're playing with fire and sooner or later you're going to get burned. You've been lucky so far. But if something happens and you need to be hospitalized, what will you do then? It will cost you a hell of a lot more than 8000 baht.

You're still young. Medical insurance will cost you a hell of a lot less than it costs most board members. I hope you re-think what you're doing. I'd like to be able to save the money it costs me for medical insurance too, but this is one area where saving money is a foolish thing to do.

[fountainhall]

I suspect that many of christianpfc's age are in a similar situation with no health insurance. Unlike him, I have had health insurance in some form ever since coming to Asia - ranging from excellent policies to abysmal policies. Like him, I have not spent more than Bt. 8,000 a year on health issues over the last six years - apart from one expensive procedure which older men should definitely consider and one vaccination (validity 10 years) for a particularly nasty illness I want to avoid. But I know that I will need my insurance sooner rather than later as I have cataract and retina issues that have to be taken care of.

All I would say to him is the older one gets, the more important being on some insurer's list becomes. I believe with many companies you can take out a very basic policy which, at his age and at least into his early 40s, would not cost much. The benefits could then eventually be upgraded. The problem with no insurance is, as always, the pre-existing condition clause! If he does plan to keep on travelling like many of us, the chance of illness and/or accident is, i reckon, greater than merely staying at home with a routine job and returning home each night. But we each have to decide on the balance we want in our lives.

[Gaybutton]

The problem with no insurance is, as always, the pre-existing condition clause

That is a very good point. Better to have the insurance before conditions do develop.

[Papa]

However he was hit by a motorbike as he walked the street of Pattaya and incurred 160,000 Thai baht... US $4,700 in hospital expenses from the accident.

In a perfect storm, a heart attack trigger by the accident, the gentleman might be rendered unconscious and taken by the good people to one of the private hospitals.

There is no chance that he could use an ATM before an expensive procedure.

Scenario 1, he has his insurance card, passport and 5,000 bahts on him.
Scenario 2, passport and 5,000 bahts only.

Who would get immediate attention?

[2lz2p]

Who would get immediate attention?

As to having a motorbike hit you, could easily happen - I stepped out of a restaurant yesterday and was narrowly missed by a motorbike - silly me, I didn't look as I stepped out on to the sidewalk in front of the restaurant - For those without health insurance, but want to be covered in case of an accident, those policies are not expensive - around 2,500 baht for a year's coverage by a Thai company.

As to heart attack, always a possibility, even for the young. Let's add an ischemic "stroke" to that - when I had mine, the total bill was about US$8,000 - 3,000 of that was for two doses of clot busting medicine, which must be received within 3 hours of the stroke to be effective. At the time of the stroke, I couldn't use my left arm and left side of mouth was drooping. The clot busting medicine did its job - the only lasting effects are some numbness in two fingers on my left hand and some numbness on left side of mouth.

If you don't have Thai health insurance, then hopefully you will have credit card(s) with sufficient credit availability to cover any major hospital expense as the private hospitals will want a letter of guarantee from the insurance provider (provided they are on the list of those they will accept) -- but, as with my health insurance, it takes time to get the letter from them - in my case, this has taken from 1 to several days - until they get it, the hospital will want a deposit up front. I used my credit card in the stroke case - since insurance approval was pending, they only put a "hold" on your card for the amount of deposit - once they receive the letter, they return the signed credit card slips to you and remove the hold.

If you are unconscious, providing the deposit would be a problem if unable to sign the credit card slip - myself, I had an attorney draw up a power of attorney authorizing my Thai partner to sign for me (it stipulates the authorization is only for medical care) -- will that work, don't know as I haven't had to use it - but fingers crossed it will be accepted.