Retirement Questions

[Xiphoid Process]

Good Morning (from the Pacific Northwest). I am still slaving away in farangland but love to peak in here on occasion and read the goings on of people living in "paradise". I have only made 3 trips to Thailand so far (2005, 2006 and 2011) and all 3 of those were very Pattaya intensive. I find myself coming up on sort of a crossroads and would love to hear various opinions about what might be prudent to do.

I am single and have been for a long time. I have had the same job for over 20 years and 10 years ago I relocated for them to an area I have no ties to nor would I stay in should the job end. It is looking like the job could end or change so dramatically by the end of the year I would no longer want to do it. I am just shy of being 52 years old. When I count the coins in my piggy bank I figure I can spend 120,000 baht per month (inflation adjusted at today's exchange rate) for life and that doesn't factor in any Social Security. The job is a good one and high paying but I have no desire to put the effort into trying to find another one. I really am tired of working for "the Man" even though the current "Man" has been a generous, benevolent master. I also feel like I have no real home as I never was able to get much going here and left my last home so long ago.

One thing that has been percolating in the back of my mind for years would be some type of early, expat retirement. My mind basically shifts around fast on locations but one basic idea I have is to move to Thailand/Mexico/Ecuador with the idea being it would be for a minimum of 3 years. If I like it I can stay if not I can leave. Maybe later when I am 55 I could return to the US, buy a cheap condo in Sun City, AZ and spend the hot months in Thailand or exploring the world. I am fat and take pills to control bp but no other known health problems.

I think living as budget conscious as possible in the early years will be crucial to some type of this plan working for me. Basically living on 60k per month or less with an occasional splurge, maybe living for months at a time in different regions to see if any one really calls out to me. Is this a crazy idea? Am I too young to consider such foolishness? If you could go back in time with my numbers would you do it? Would you do something else? Some variation? Will it likely be fun? Or something regretted?

Please shower me with your accumulated wisdom on these questions. Thanks so much.

[Tripod Mike]

I'll be bold enough to step up to the plate first and offer the opportunity for you to receive many other posts with objective, constructive comments.
First, you are a very fortunate individual to be in the position in life, where at 52 and the beginning of your most productive years, you can choose what life and where you wish to enjoy living it -with wide-open endless opportunities. Second, I doubt you will receive many post from any Expats who can Legitimately answer you with the credentials needed by someone who was in your exact position when they arrived in Thailand at the age of 52 and thereabouts.
Obviously you have already done your homework regarding the countries most favorable to live in for health care, and other important reasons. I'm refraining from offering you a load of suggestions mainly because I am not qualified and I was not in your situation until I was 60. I will only say in this first post that when I decided to change my whole lifestyle and be bold enough leave what I had at the time to move to Thailand, I read as much as possible about the new country beforehand. US State Department has so many very informative internet subjects on all aspects of Thai life and it was a self-imposed "imperative" for me to read. I also learned how to speak a little Thai from the internet just before arriving. In fact, I was reading anything I could fathom about Thailand at the time.
Apon arriving in Bangkok and unpacking in the Hotel which was to be my home for awhile, my first objective was checking out the different languge schools, hospitals and other medical facilities, banks etc both in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. One evening I met an American Expat in a gay bar while in Chiang Mai( who is still my very good friend) who said "YOU"VE NEVER BEEN TO PATTAYA BEFORE?" The rest is history. A very happy life.

[Gaybutton]

My advice is to "try before you buy." In other words, since you've only been to Thailand three times, and all three were mainly Pattaya, and all three were holiday trips, then if it's possible for you to do, I would come to Thailand on at least a six month trial basis. At 52 and with the amount of money you apparently have at your disposal, obtaining the retirement visa won't be a problem. Spend time exploring the country, deciding what area best suits what you're looking for. There is far more to Thailand than just Pattaya and there is a huge difference between coming to Thailand for a holiday and actually living here. I would further advise leaving yourself an "escape route" in case it turns out that Thailand is really not for you on a permanent basis. Thailand isn't for everybody. Make sure you have a place to return to if Thailand doesn't work out for you. Many farang spend part of the year living in Thailand and part of the year back in their home country.

Also, I would urge you to start learning to speak Thai once you're here or, better still, see if you can find a competent Thai language teacher and start learning right now. You don't have to be fluent, but the more you can speak and understand the language, the easier it is to live here, although I do know people who live here, love living here, and can hardly speak a word of Thai.

In my case, obviously Thailand is for me. I can't think of anywhere else on the planet I would rather be than where I am right now, despite the problems. For me, retiring in Thailand is the best thing I've ever done for myself. After living here for years and knowing a hell of a lot more now than I did when I first moved here, I would still do the same thing tomorrow. But I also know people whose dream was retiring in Thailand, but their dream eventually became their nightmare.

You can live in Thailand on 120,000 baht per month. You can easily live at least "middle class" on that. How far 120,000 baht will stretch depends on how extravagant a lifestyle you wish to live. If you're the type who has to live in an expensive luxury apartment or house, has to eat in "fine dining" restaurants every night, has to go to the bars every night and have a boy every day - things like that, 120,000 baht per month may not be nearly enough. On the other hand, renting in a nice, but not necessarily luxurious, condo and leading a less extravagant lifestyle - 120,000 baht per month should be more than enough. 60,000 baht per month is do-able, but since you said you will actually have about 120,000 baht at your disposal, you'll be able to upgrade your lifestyle if you find 60,000 baht doesn't go far enough to meet your needs.

Since you're seriously thinking of retiring in Thailand, my opinion is to try it - with that escape route. Thailand may or may not work out for you, but if you don't try it, now you'll have to spend the rest of your life wondering whether it would have.

[Smiles]

I agree with Gaybutton ~ will wonders never cease ~ very much on this. FYI: My experience on this topic is 7 years of contented living in LoS. There are many on this board who have lived here longer than that, with varying degrees of success.

Bottom line is that, at 52 years of age you can easily get yourself a (so-called) retirement visa which will let you stay in Thailand for one year to 'try it out'. If you like it, and it suits you etc etc etc then it's an easy and inexpensive task to renew that one year stay for, well, forever.
120,000 baht a month is a quite nice income for Thailand and you can easily live a happy life here with that.
Proviso on above: Don't be completely stupid when it comes to the 'Thai Guy Situation' (always just below the surface) and let common sense rule your decision-making in that area.
Good luck.

[christianpfc]

The op and all advice given sound very reasonable to me. I congratulate the op to his achievements!

My advice is to have a look at other areas of Thailand, learn the language, and do not buy property.

[lvdkeyes]

I did not learn the language, other than a few words, and did buy property and I have been happily living here for nearly 10 years.

[Gaybutton]

I did not learn the language, other than a few words

Yes, but in your circumstances you live with a Thai boyfriend who speaks very good English and you live in a city where fairly good English is spoken by very many Thais. Someone who ends up living out in the hinterlands somewhere might not fare so well.

In my own case, since I live alone, frequently talk to a wide variety of Thais - including the boys, do a lot of traveling around Thailand by car - also alone, and quite often find myself speaking to Thais who speak very little or no English, the ability to speak Thai has been very helpful to me. Without being able to speak relatively good Thai, I would have had a hell of a lot of problems.

As for not buying property, I would agree with that until having lived in Thailand long enough to really know what you're doing and are absolutely certain as to where you want to live. When someone reaches that point, then - and only then - would I agree that it's safe to buy property. Also if I were buying property, there is no way I would buy something under construction or where construction hasn't even started. Too many scams and too many people have lost a great deal of money as a result. For me, the only exception to that would be if I were buying from a very well established company with a very well established reputation for quality and reliability.

[RichLB]

I agree with most of what has been previously written. My story is that after travelling throughout most of the world and extensively in Latin America I discovered southeast Asia. I had no intention of retiring here, but after the first visit I found myself not wanting to travel elsewhere. Consequently, I retired here 15 years ago.

As to your proposed budget, 120,000 baht is sufficient to afford you a nice life style - but not enough to be particularly lavish. A one or two bedroom condo with ocean view in Pattaya can be had for between 20,000 and 25,000 baht a month. Singles will go for around 10,000 baht a month - give or take a few thousand. While many would disagree, I don't think it makes much sense to buy a place. There are just too many uncertainties to do that - noisy neighbors, changing "hot spots", limitted mobility, etc.

Food is far less expensive here than it is in the states. Frankly, I've become so spoiled with eating out I don't bother cooking. If you do that, count on sit down breakfast for between 100 baht to 200 baht; dinners (depending on how fancy you want to go) at sit down restaurants range between 300 baht to 500 baht (and upwards, sometimes). Of course, if you enjoy street stalls or little Thai eateries, cut those estimates by 50 percent.

Now, as for learning Thai... Very few of the farang I know here speak Thai at all and they get along just fine. It's amazing how well you can communicate through charades and smiles. In Pattaya, there are enough Thais who speak English you will not find yourself at a loss. I do speak Thai, though, and take issue with those who claim it is a difficult language to learn. Sure, it's tough to speak it well, but if the goal is to communicate and not give learned lectures you will be surprised how easy it is. I have never met anyone who has done well at the various language schools and find just talking to Thais is the easiest and quickest ways to pick up the language. It's slow going at first, but the learning curve is exponential. Just don't be shy about being a language klutz at first.

Now the most important thing is to develop the ability to enjoy the cultural differences. Thailand is not the USA and many, many things are different here. Don't let yourself be grouchy about that, enjoy it.

I see that I've gone on way too long. I encourage you to follow GB's advice. Come for a relatively long stay sojourn and see if you love the place. Then, bite the bullet and come on over.

[lvdkeyes]

Yes, but in your circumstances you live with a Thai boyfriend who speaks very good English .

I lived here 3 years before my bf moved in with me and I had traveled to CM, Phuket, Maehongsong, Samui and Krabi alone.

[Gaybutton]

I lived here 3 years before my bf moved in with me and I had traveled to CM, Phuket, Maehongsong, Samui and Krabi alone.

What are you disputing? Yes, of course farang can live here and survive quite well without learning to speak Thai. Many do. I agree it is not a vital necessity to learn to speak Thai, but it sure helps. I did quite a bit of traveling throughout Thailand too, before I could speak much of anything without much of a problem. I've traveled to many countries where I can't speak the language. But I also think, for most farang living in Thailand, learning to speak Thai can only make life simpler.

People have to make their own choices. My choice is if I'm planning to spend the rest of my life living in a foreign country, I'm going to learn to speak the language as best as I can and, as I said, for me having done so has been extremely helpful.