13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

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fedssocr1
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#291 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fedssocr1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:45 am

There was a lot of misinformation or wrong information. I think quite a lot of that came from the governor at his news briefings. Maybe some things got lost in translation. Or maybe it was, as you say, various rumors that everyone latched onto as fact.

My guess is that the actual rescuers in the cave with the boys would have known from talking to them directly whether or not they could swim. However given how weakened they apparently were after not eating for so long it's quite likely that swimming them out wasn't a possibility. We've been told the experienced divers themselves had difficulty with the strong currents...of course maybe some of that wasn't the truth either I suppose.

I agree it is a bit frustrating how much we were told ended up not being what actually happened. Some day some one will interview everyone who was in the cave and they will write a book or some other definitive account.

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#292 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Captain Swing » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:57 am

Undaunted wrote:
Captain Swing wrote:Forgive me for venting, and I know that this is totally missing the point, but I can't help but be appalled by how much misinformation we've been fed over the past weeks.

Now you know how people feel about Trump's version of what happened in his meeting with Putin!

Actually, I've been very surprised that he hasn't taken credit yet for rescuing the cave boys.

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#293 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fountainhall » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:04 am

Captain Swing wrote:Forgive me for venting, and I know that this is totally missing the point, but I can't help but be appalled by how much misinformation we've been fed over the past weeks.

I don't believe for a minute the world was "fed" a lot of inaccuracies. As in many dangerous situations where those in charge have to make key strategic decisions minute by minute, there is rarely sufficient time to respond to all questions. One with a reporter asking "Can the boys swim?" could have had a response "We don't know" which in turn could have been reported in a variety of different ways from "They can't swim" to "Maybe one or two can swim" or "We're not sure how many can swim." Of course, someone could have gone to the families to ask, but why waste precious manpower to do that? In such a chaotic series of events with so many experts involved, thank goodness the focus of the rescuers was 100% of getting the boys out. The facts would come out later, as many did last night.

I have now read or seen almost a dozen versions of the last night's media conference which I watched from beginning to end. Virtually every one has errors of fact! My own summary typed as I watched the conference and posted above is regrettably not error free!

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#294 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:52 am

Suppose the boys are all highly skilled swimmers. Wouldn't you say there is a big difference from being able to swim and being able to dive with scuba gear when you're weakened, frightened, in water with strong currents, zero visibility, in a cave with narrow passages, and no prior experience scuba diving?

In my opinion erroneous news reports certainly would not have been intentionally submitted, are minor errors, and would not have had any significance or changed anything about how the rescue was conducted.

I'm with Captain Kirk on this one. To me, the erroneous news reports about the rescue are a non issue and I don't object to them. I think they tried their best under the circumstances. The only important thing is they were all successfully rescued.

What I would object to is, now that the boys have gone home, if the reporters interfere with their lives and won't leave them alone. The news reports I would like to see now would be that the boys, all of them, will be able to travel to accept the invitations. Other than that, I hope the news media doesn't screw up their lives.

Rather than worrying about what reporters got wrong, I prefer news reports such as the following:
____________________________________________________________________________________

Thai citizenship likely for one footballer

July 19, 2018

Tambon official says records of mu pa player Mongkol, 13, found at nursery.

At least one of the four stateless Mu Pa footballers rescued from the flooded Tham Luang cave has a good chance of securing Thai citizenship.

“We have found his records at a municipal nursery, and although his parents are not Thais they are documented residents of Thailand,” Tambon Wiang Pha Kham Municipality’s clerk Lieutenant Kittichai Charoenying said earlier this week. “So it is very likely that he was born here in Thailand.”

Kittichai was speaking about 13-year-old Mongkol Boonpium.

Under Thai law, a person can get Thai citizenship if he is born to a Thai parent or parents, or is born in Thailand.

Mongkol was one of the 13 members of the Mu Pa Academy Mae Sai trapped by flash floods inside the Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province for more than two weeks.

The fate of the 12 boys and the team’s assistant football coach rivetted the attention of people across the world. Experts from several nations joined Thailand’s 17-day-long massive effort to rescue the trapped football team, turning what was believed to be an impossible mission into “mission possible”.

Although one ex-Navy SEAL died during the operation, all the 13 trapped footballers were eventually evacuated safely.

During the operation, it was revealed in media that Mongkol, Mu Pa teammates Pornchai Khamluang, 16, and Adul Samon, 14, as well as assistant football coach Ekkapol Chantawongse are stateless.

Since then, there have been growing calls for the four to get assistance with the process of seeking citizenship.

Kittichai this week said his municipality had already told Mongkol’s parents to produce witnesses or further documents to back up their request to recognise the boy’s Thai citizenship.“The process will take some time. But at this point, it is quite convincing that the boy was born here in Thailand,” Kittichai said.

Ban Pa Meud School director Iam Boriboon said Mongkol had enrolled at his school from Prathom 1.

“We can issue the certification in this regard,” Iam said.

Chiang Rai is a border province with Myanmar, and many people living there lack Thai citizenship papers.

Among them is Adul and many of his friends at the Chiang Rai Grace Church.

“To tell the truth, most children at the church do not have Thai citizenship,” said a migrant worker from Myanmar who has already given birth to three sons on Thai soil.

She said she has known Adul well since he was very young.

“He’s an orphan. His parents have already passed away,” she said.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, she said it would be extremely difficult for Adul to successfully undergo the nationality-verification process, given that he no longer had his parents by his side.

By Thai laws, a parent must contact authorities to request Thai citizenship for his or her child.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/ ... l/30350349

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#295 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fountainhall » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:55 am

I wonder if Adul could be adopted by Thais. Would that help in gaining Thai citizenship?

I still believe the government will make an exception. As i stated earlier, I am certain the boys will not accept the invitations from Manchester United, Benfica and Barcelona unless they can go with their friends as a team. And if they have to turn down the invitations for those reasons, I have a feeling there will be some form of international outcry. Perhaps the Thai authorities could offer temporary passports valid only for the period of the tour whilst the boys longer term citizenship is sorted out. This is too much of an international feel good story for Thailand for it to end on a sour note.

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#296 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Captain Swing » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:19 am

To further beat a dying horse:

From the article quoted just above:


"She said she has known Adul well since he was very young.

“He’s an orphan. His parents have already passed away,” she said.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, she said it would be extremely difficult for Adul to successfully undergo the nationality-verification process, given that he no longer had his parents by his side."

From the NY Times 8 days ago:

"As for Adul’s parents, they counseled the only one of their five children lucky enough to study in Thailand to be on his best behavior, even during the most traumatic of times.

“After you come out of the cave,” they instructed their son in a note, “you have to say thank you to every single officer.”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/worl ... eless.html

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#297 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Gaybutton » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:26 am

fountainhall wrote:This is too much of an international feel good story for Thailand for it to end on a sour note.

Even if they can't go, I still have a feeling that some of those teams might instead come to Thailand and put on exhibition games or something similar and the boys would be the guests of honor. It wouldn't cost them any more to go to Thailand than it would to bring the boys to them. So, even if the boy won't be able to travel, there is still a chance for a happy ending to that part.

Obviously these boys are important to the readers of this board, but now that most of the drama is over, for most of the world this will probably soon become a totally forgotten news item, just like what becomes of most major news stories after a while - especially when Trump pulls his next outrageous bullshit - and that is likely to be very soon.

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#298 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby fountainhall » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 pm

Gaybutton wrote:Even if they can't go, I still have a feeling that some of those teams might instead come to Thailand and put on exhibition games or something similar and the boys would be the guests of honor. It wouldn't cost them any more to go to Thailand than it would to bring the boys to them.

Nice idea but sorry to say that is highly unlikely to happen. The invitations from Barcelona and Benfica are to take part in week-long youth soccer tournaments in addition to attending first team matches. Manchester United's invitation is merely to watch a regular Premier League game. That can't be replicated with just one match against a local team in Thailand, unfortunately.

As for even one of the teams coming to Thailand, the cost would be massive. These pro soccer teams are at the top of the tree. The soccer calendar in Europe is so packed there is no time to interrupt a regular season with one-offs 6,000 miles away. and their summer tours are fixed at least a couple of years ahead. They also won't make just one long-haul flight and then go back.

A match in Thailand would have to be part of a longer tour. Touring a team with hugely expensive managers and star players means business and first class tickets for a party of 40 or more - not only a squad of around 20 players but also physiotherapists, various coaching staff, administrators, PR people and the like; 5-star hotels and other luxuries. The total cost will prove massive in comparison to that for 11 boys, their coach and a guardian each travelling economy class and staying in an iBis or similar hotel.

Mind you, if the government or a private individual puts up oodles of cash, maybe it could just be game on!!

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#299 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Geezer » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:23 pm

The boys can be given citizenship with a simple stroke of the pen via section 44.

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#300 Re: 13 Thais Missing during Caving Expedition

Postby Undaunted » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:58 pm

Geezer wrote:The boys can be given citizenship with a simple stroke of the pen via section 44.

It also can happen by 1 special person saying "make it so"!
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"


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